tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8955388713581848615.post9200912723009024184..comments2024-03-15T08:49:39.930+08:00Comments on The Shroud of Turin: Shroud of Turin: Burial sheet of Jesus!: #5 What is the Shroud of Turin?Stephen E. Joneshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16183223752386599799noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8955388713581848615.post-84701024316225961402016-01-05T08:11:48.028+08:002016-01-05T08:11:48.028+08:00I had deleted this comment because it seemed to be...I had deleted this comment because it seemed to be saying that because the image on the Shroud was "supernatural" it is "folly" to "pass judgement on the authenticity of the Shroud."<br /><br />While I agree that the image had a supernatural cause, the resurrection of Jesus, the image is in the natural realm and so can be profitably studied.<br /><br />But I was wrong to delete this comment as "substandard" (which I have here re-posted) because I didn't agree with it, and I apologise to the commenter.<br /><br />Stephen E. Jones<br />----------------------------------<br />MY POLICIES Comments are moderated. Those I consider off-topic, offensive or sub-standard will not appear. Except that comments under my latest post can be on any Shroud-related topic without being off-topic. I normally allow only one comment per individual under each one of my posts.Stephen E. Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16183223752386599799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8955388713581848615.post-28645155049676955852016-01-05T08:02:53.091+08:002016-01-05T08:02:53.091+08:00RICHARD WROBO
I have read some articles regarding...RICHARD WROBO<br /><br />I have read some articles regarding the Shroud and the debate over whether carbon dating proved that the shroud is old enough to be Christ's original burial cloth or not, or if the carbon dating was performed on the Shroud, or a section that was repaired, or mold or other substances covering the area where the sample was taken from. I believe there was also discussion over what caused the images on the cloth and that it was not a painting and that the images were computer mapped and showed a 3-D image that an artist could not have possibly done by painting on a cloth. Anyone that believes that the Shroud is the burial cloth of Christ should realize that the cloth was exposed to supernatural powers and energies at the moment of the resurrection that defy time, space, and anything known to man and could have (by accident or design)altered any of these properties of the cloth and anything on the cloth, and for any man to pass judgement on the authenticity of the Shroud based on our meager understanding of God and the universe is folly.Stephen E. Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16183223752386599799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8955388713581848615.post-20181788304449404032011-12-29T08:55:36.525+08:002011-12-29T08:55:36.525+08:00Anonymous
Thanks for your comment.
>And too, ...Anonymous<br /><br />Thanks for your comment.<br /><br />>And too, my mind is certain that the cloth that his martyric death stained thus, would be reverently saved and carefully kept by someone very close to him, perhaps John initially, to whom Jesus from the cross had entrusted his mother. <br /><br />Agreed. This is a point that I have made in other posts. The disciples would not just throw away Jesus' empty graveclothes, or leave them for grave-robbers, but would have kept them, notwithstanding they were bloodstained and therefore unclean to Jews. <br /><br />And having kept them, they would have been preserved down to this day, unless they were deliberately destroyed.<br /><br />Yves Delage, the agnostic Professor of Anatomy at the Paris Sorbonne, and one of the first scientists to accept that the Shroud was Jesus', based on the scientific evidence, made the same point:<br /><br />"I recognize Christ as a historical personage and I see no reason why anyone should be scandalized that there still exist material traces of his earthly life.'" (Walsh, J.E., "The Shroud," Random House: New York NY, 1963, p.107).<br /><br />StephenStephen E. Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16183223752386599799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8955388713581848615.post-21631216260578929852011-12-29T07:26:53.461+08:002011-12-29T07:26:53.461+08:00Thank you Stephen!
This is one of the times that I...Thank you Stephen!<br />This is one of the times that I'm grateful for the Ancient Greek I was forced to learn for 6 years in school in Athens, thinking then "What do I need to study a dead language for??"<br /><br />But now...being able to read the New Testament in its original language with all its beauty and fine nuances, is a great joy, and I can't stop silently thanking the school system that made it possible (it changed, and younger students don't have the opportunity anymore ...). <br /><br />Personally, I do believe the Shroud is genuine, as the large sheet that wrapped Jesus when they took him down from the cross. <br /><br />My mind is unable to think that the outward signs of the cosmic event that took place on that cross, i.e his blood, sweat, and tears, would be the same as any other person's and would decay with the passage of time as any other person's. <br /><br />And too, my mind is certain that the cloth that his martyric death stained thus, would be reverently saved and carefully kept by someone very close to him, perhaps John initially, to whom Jesus from the cross had entrusted his mother.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8955388713581848615.post-65530563919573725222011-12-29T06:30:49.798+08:002011-12-29T06:30:49.798+08:00Anonymous
Thanks for your comment. Because of its...Anonymous<br /><br />Thanks for your comment. Because of its length, I will respond to it in a separate post.<br /><br />StephenStephen E. Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16183223752386599799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8955388713581848615.post-10896955072366536732011-12-29T05:17:27.164+08:002011-12-29T05:17:27.164+08:00In the Gospel accounts, there are two different Gr...In the Gospel accounts, there are two different Greek words referring to what covered Jesus' body after the crucifixion.<br />The one word is 'sindon (σινδόν) and the other is 'othonia' (οθόνια), in their various conjugations.<br /><br /><b>Sindon-i</b> means a SHEET of linen. Even today, it's how they call a bed sheet in Greece.<br /><b>Othonia</b> means narrow linen strips, used to wrap a dead body.<br /><br />MATTHEW: 27:59 “And when Joseph (of Arimathea) had taken the body, he wrapped it in a <i>clean linen cloth</i>,” <b>sindoni</b> in the Greek text.<br /><br />MARK: 15:46 “Then (Joseph of Arimathea) bought <i>fine linen</i> (<b>sindona</b> in the Greek text), and took Him down, and wrapped Him in the linen.” <br /><br />LUKE: 23:53 “Then (Joseph of Arimathea) took (the body) down, wrapped it in <i>linen</i> (<b>sindoni</b> in the Greek text...” <br /><br />JOHN: 19:40 “Then took they the body of Jesus, and wound it in <i>linen clothes</i> (<b>othoniois</b> in the Greek text) with the spices, as the manner of the Jews is to bury.” <br /><br />JOHN 20:5, 6, 7 "And he stooping down, and looking in, saw the <i>linen clothes</i> (<b>othonia</b> in the Greek text) lying; yet went he not in....."<br /><br />Simple reading of the Gospels with a good Greek dictionary shows that Jesus' body was wrapped in a linen SHEET upon taking him down from the cross and carrying him to the tomb, and then, was wrapped in narrow linen STRIPS impregnated with about 100 liters of the myrrh and aloe mix that Nicodemus had brought.<br /><br />Common sense says that his body must have been quickly sponged clean of blood and dust and sweat, by one of his loving companions, before they wrapped it with the perfumed narrow linen strips.<br /><br />Also common sense and lots of CSI says that a dead body stops bleeding, as the heart does not pump blood anymore.<br /><br />The Shroud is one continuous sheet of linen with blood stains, which can only be the sheet they wrapped him in when they took him down from the cross and hurriedly carried him to the tomb. <br /><br />His friends obviously would not sit at the foot of the cross to wrap him in narrow linen strips and pour perfume on them, and they were rushing, because the Sabbath was starting. <br /><br />So the blood-stained big linen sheet was surely saved by a reverent follower, and the hurriedly-cleaned body of Jesus was wrapped in narrow linen strips with the perfumes, his face covered with the traditional 'soudarion', (linen napkin), which was found together with the linen strips, when the tomb was visited after his resurrection (John 20:7). <br /><br />So any scenario where Jesus was BURIED in the shroud, cannot be true. Not only the Jewish custom demanded linen strips, but the New Testament also says so.<br />The Shroud can only be the large sheet they wrapped him in, as they took him down from the cross.<br /><br />Whether the figure and blood on the shroud are his, how they were formed, is another matter. <br /><br />It is very surprising that observations such as the above are not present in any article I have read.... Also interesting is that at least one of the dating tests was financed by an Italian agnostic/atheist group.....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com