tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8955388713581848615.post6790207508445759114..comments2024-03-14T08:08:39.968+08:00Comments on The Shroud of Turin: Shroud of Turin depicts a Y-shaped cross?Stephen E. Joneshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16183223752386599799noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8955388713581848615.post-87519836185828383232022-04-02T22:50:47.777+08:002022-04-02T22:50:47.777+08:00[continued]
Emmerich's visions (and/or Brenta...[continued]<br /><br />Emmerich's visions (and/or Brentano's "elaborations" of them) contained the false, and <i>racist</i>, claim that the black nations are children of Noah's son Ham":<br /><br />"Brentano wrote that Emmerich said she believed that Noah's son Ham was the progenitor of "the black, idolatrous, stupid nations" of the world" (<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Catherine_Emmerich#Clemens_Brentano%27s_visits" rel="nofollow">Wikipedia</a>).<br /><br />And the <i>anti-semitic</i> claim that, "Jews ... strangled Christian children and used their blood for ... diabolical practices":<br /><br />"The "Dolorous Passion" is claimed to reveal a "clear antisemitic strain throughout", with Brentano writing that Emmerich believed that "Jews ... strangled Christian children and used their blood for all sorts of suspicious and diabolical practices" (<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Catherine_Emmerich#Clemens_Brentano%27s_visits" rel="nofollow">Wikipedia</a>).<br /><br />If these were part of the visions from God revealed to Emmerich, then then her "God" was the Devil!<br /><br />I'm sorry to say it, but you, "Saint" are an example of `the blind being led by the blind' that Jesus warned against: <a href="https://tinyurl.com/yrppa4d3" rel="nofollow">Mt 15:14</a> "Let them alone; they are blind guides. And if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit."<br /><br />My advice to you is what I did in the 1990s (and am doing again now): read only the words of Jesus in the Gospels. One verse a day (it took me 8 years). Apply Jesus' words in prayers of adoration, confession, thanksgiving and supplication (ACTS) to Him. It will change your life, as it changed mine ~30 years ago! <br /><br />Stephen E. Jones<br />----------------------------------<br />MY POLICIES. Comments are moderated. Those I consider off-topic, offensive or sub-standard will not appear. Except that comments under my current post can be on any one Shroud-related topic without being off-topic. To avoid time-wasting debate, I normally allow only one comment per individual under each one of my posts. I reserve the right to respond to any comment as a separate blog post.Stephen E. Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16183223752386599799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8955388713581848615.post-13843083693879331402022-04-02T22:45:08.919+08:002022-04-02T22:45:08.919+08:00[continued]
>Also, she writes that Jesus carri...[continued]<br /><br />>Also, she writes that Jesus carried the central part of the cross than that others carried the arm pieces as well as other pieces, including an additional piece for the INRI inscription. <br /><br />If this was in Emmerich's vision then it shows that she was deluded. There are no "others" mentioned in the Gospel accounts of carrying Jesus' cross, except Jesus and a passerby, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_of_Cyrene" rel="nofollow">Simon of Cyrene</a>. First Jesus went out carrying His cross (the <i>patibulum</i> or crossbeam) (<a href="https://tinyurl.com/bddkwtdh" rel="nofollow">Jn 19:17</a>) and then Simon of Cyrene was forced to carry it for Jesus (<a href="https://tinyurl.com/5n6fbery" rel="nofollow">Mt 27:32; Mk 15:21; Lk 23:26</a>) when He couldn't. The far too heavy to carry <i>stipes</i> or upright was permanently fixed at the crucifixion site (see <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crucifixion#Details" rel="nofollow">Wikipedia</a>).<br /><br />>She had the visions described to Brentano years before the Shroud of Turin was x-ray'd revealing the crucified image. <br /><br />The Shroud's crucified image doesn't need to be xrayed to see it. It can be seen by the naked eye (see <a href="http://www.sindonology.org/shroudScope/shroudScope.shtml" rel="nofollow">ShroudScope</a>).<br /><br />>The scientific team that did a detailed, general and microscopic and forensic evaluation of the Shroud in 1978 thought the blood flow images on the arm were comparable with a "Y" shaped cross. <br /><br />This is <i>false</i>. It was French surgeon <a href="https://theshroudofturin.blogspot.com/2022/01/barbet-p-turin-shroud-encyclopedia.html" rel="nofollow">Pierre Barbet(1884–1961)</a> who worked that out from the 1931 Enrie photographs of the Shroud. And he published it ~30 years before <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shroud_of_Turin_Research_Project" rel="nofollow">STURP</a> in his 1950 book "La Passion de N. S. Jesus-Christ selon le Chirurgien" which was translated into English in 1953 as "A Doctor at Calvary" (see my <a href="https://theshroudofturin.blogspot.com/2022/01/barbet-p-turin-shroud-encyclopedia.html#paraFDP" rel="nofollow">11Jan22</a>).<br /><br />Even the Vatican doesn't endorse Emmerich's writings by Brentano:<br /><br />"The Vatican does not endorse the authenticity of the books written by Brentano" (<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Catherine_Emmerich#Clemens_Brentano%27s_visits" rel="nofollow">Wikipedia</a>).<br /><br />[continued]Stephen E. Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16183223752386599799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8955388713581848615.post-54100254810350680912022-04-02T22:32:13.086+08:002022-04-02T22:32:13.086+08:00[continued]
>The Roman cross was used for crim...[continued]<br /><br />>The Roman cross was used for crimes against Rome, which would have been for the two thieves. <br /><br />Was this part of Emmerich's `vision' or Brentano's "elaborations"? But it has it backwards. The two "thieves" were just that: "robbers" and "criminals" <a href="https://tinyurl.com/2p9464rh" rel="nofollow">(Mt 27:38; Mk 15:27; Lk 23:33</a>). Their crimes were only <i>indirectly</i> against Rome. But Jesus was crucified because He claimed to be "King of the Jews" (<a href="https://tinyurl.com/yc4nc5fy" rel="nofollow">Mt 27:11,29; Mk 15:2,9,12,18; Lk 23:3,37; Jn 18:33,36,39; 19:3, 14</a>), which <i>really was</i> a crime against Rome!<br /><br />>Pilate wanted nothing to do with Jesus' judgement, but was forced to do so as the Jews could not crucify without his permission. <br /><br />Nevertheless Pilate <i>did</i> crucify Jesus for the reason written on the official charge against Him, that He claimed to be "the King of the Jews":<br /><br />"And over his head they put the charge against him, which read, `This is Jesus, the King of the Jews'" (<a href="https://tinyurl.com/8vmdks7u" rel="nofollow">Mt 27:37, Mk 15:26; Lk 23:38; Jn 19:19</a>)<br /><br />>She describes the cross being made by Caiphas' men, not the Roman soldiers' men, which could account for the "Y" shape. <br /><br />She and/or Brentano are wrong. Only the Romans were allowed to crucify and they had trained crucifixion squads to do it. Why would they have stood by and let a bunch of untrained Jewish amateurs do it? Clearly Emmerich and/or Brentano are `spicing up' the Bible account for sensationalist motives.<br /><br />[continued]Stephen E. Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16183223752386599799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8955388713581848615.post-20494334585011573442022-04-02T22:21:07.384+08:002022-04-02T22:21:07.384+08:00Saint
>The Visionary Anne Catherine Emmerich d...Saint<br /><br />>The Visionary Anne Catherine Emmerich detailed the Life of Christ.<br /><br />According to <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Catherine_Emmerich" rel="nofollow">Wikipedia</a> Emmerich didn't write the books attributed to her:<br /><br />"The poet Clemens Brentano interviewed her at length and wrote two books based on his notes of her visions. ... The authenticity of Brentano's writings has been questioned and critics have characterized the books as 'conscious elaborations by a poet'".<br /><br />So we can't know if anything in Emmerich's books were her `visions' or Brentano's "elaborations"!<br /><br />>This included his passion. The currently available book "The Dolorous Passion of Our Lord Jesus Christ" is available online. <br /><br />See above (and below for it being racist (anti-black and anti-Jewish).<br /><br />>In it she describes the cross as "Y" shaped. <br /><br />That just goes to show that Emmerich's <i>subjective</i> `visions' (or Brentano's "elaborations" of them), are unreliable. See above that the <i>objective</i> evidence is that Jesus' cross was the traditional †-shaped Roman cross (crux immissa).<br /><br />And, according to Wikipedia, Emmerich got the idea of a "Y"-shaped cross from the 14th century one in her local church in Coesfeld, Germany (see added image and text in the post above):<br /><br />"As the cross on her breastbone had the unusual shape of a "Y", similar to a cross in the local church of Coesfeld" (<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Catherine_Emmerich#Stigmata" rel="nofollow">Wikipedia: Stigmata</a>).<br /><br />What an amazing `coincidence'! It just so happened that there was a famous Y-shaped cross, in Emmerich's local church and she had a `vision' that Jesus' cross was "Y"-shaped! <br /><br />[continued]Stephen E. Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16183223752386599799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8955388713581848615.post-2231698005123599002022-04-01T04:21:29.073+08:002022-04-01T04:21:29.073+08:00The Visionary Anne Catherine Emmerich detailed the...The Visionary Anne Catherine Emmerich detailed the Life of Christ. This included his passion. The currently available book "The Dolorous Passion of Our Lord Jesus Christ" is available online. In it she describes the cross as "Y" shaped. The Roman cross was used for crimes against Rome, which would have been for the two thieves. Pilate wanted nothing to do with Jesus' judgement, but was forced to do so as the Jews could not crucify without his permission. She describes the cross being made by Caiphas' men, not the Roman soldiers' men, which could account for the "Y" shape. Also, she writes that Jesus carried the central part of the cross than that others carried the arm pieces as well as other pieces, including an additional piece for the INRI inscription. She had the visions described to Brentano years before the Shroud of Turin was x-ray'd revealing the crucified image. The scientific team that did a detailed, general and microscopic and forensic evaluation of the Shroud in 1978 thought the blood flow images on the arm were comparable with a "Y" shaped cross. Sainthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08815141201276521344noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8955388713581848615.post-77537740923977783682018-09-10T22:29:15.740+08:002018-09-10T22:29:15.740+08:00Annie
>Hi Stephen. I see your link to my blog ...Annie<br /><br />>Hi Stephen. I see your link to my blog post is broken. The correct link is: http://caminosantiago2.blogspot.com/search?q=Crucifix<br /><br />Thanks. I have corrected it: "<a href="https://goo.gl/rgPHEX" rel="nofollow">Annie's Simple Life</a>."<br /><br />>By the way, I have my own ideas about why this cross in PLR is Y shaped. I believe it to be the illustration of an alchemical statement., such as that found in Geheime Figuren der Rosenkreutzer (Secret Symbols of the Roseicrucians) published in Altona, Germany, in 1785 and 1788, and refers to the Pythagorian Y<br /><br />OK.<br /><br />Your comment was the first I received only hours after deleting and reentering my email address, following my discovery that several months ago, Blogger had stopped sending me email notifications of comments. I had thought no one was commenting but I belatedly found 37 comments awaiting my moderation! See <a href="https://goo.gl/YpzqyY" rel="nofollow">07Sep18</a> and <a href="https://goo.gl/eaFp8i" rel="nofollow">09Sep18</a>. So thanks for proving that Blogger's comment notifications by email now works! <br /><br />Stephen E. JonesStephen E. Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16183223752386599799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8955388713581848615.post-42056696322671492812018-09-10T21:28:54.113+08:002018-09-10T21:28:54.113+08:00Hi Stephen. I see your link to my blog post is bro...Hi Stephen. I see your link to my blog post is broken. The correct link is: http://caminosantiago2.blogspot.com/search?q=Crucifix<br /><br />By the way, I have my own ideas about why this cross in PLR is Y shaped. I believe it to be the illustration of an alchemical statement., such as that found in Geheime Figuren der Rosenkreutzer (Secret Symbols of the Roseicrucians) published in Altona, Germany, in 1785 and 1788, and refers to the Pythagorian Y. <br /><br />Anniesantiagohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00605384298382007686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8955388713581848615.post-68754877153477240832015-09-28T09:16:00.726+08:002015-09-28T09:16:00.726+08:00Daryl
>I will respond to it in a separate post...Daryl<br /><br />>I will respond to it in a separate post, ...<br /><br />I have posted the first, "<a href="http://theshroudofturin.blogspot.com.au/2015/09/why-would-jesus-have-violated-2nd.html" rel="nofollow">Why would Jesus have violated the 2nd commandment regarding religious images?</a>", of a series of posts, responding to your above comment.<br /><br />Any further comments on this topic should be under the appropriate one of those posts.<br /><br />Stephen E. Jones<br />---------------------------------<br />Reader, if you like this my <a href="http://theshroudofturin.blogspot.com.au/" rel="nofollow">The Shroud of Turin </a> blog, and you have a website, could you please consider adding a hyperlink to my blog on it? This would help increase its <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PageRank" rel="nofollow">Google PageRank</a> number and so enable those who are Google searching on "the Shroud of Turin" to more readily discover my blog. Thanks.Stephen E. Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16183223752386599799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8955388713581848615.post-77789334538818173352015-09-24T18:47:45.155+08:002015-09-24T18:47:45.155+08:00Daryl
>Why would Jesus have violated the 2nd c...Daryl<br /><br />>Why would Jesus have violated the 2nd commandment regarding religious images? Wasn't Jesus wrapped like a mummy like Lazarus? Wasn't Jesus' body washed before putting it in the grave? So how is it that blood is present? He was wrapped in more than on cloths. Is it possible that the shroud is not of God seeing that the enemy can "replicate" God's work and deceive the nations? http://bibleconundrumsandcontroversy.blogspot.com/2011/03/shroud-of-turin-hoax-or-real.html<br /><br />Thank you for your comment. I will respond to it in a separate post, when I have finished my current multi-installment post, "<a href="http://theshroudofturin.blogspot.com.au/2015/09/the-1260-1390-radiocarbon-date-of-turin.html" rel="nofollow">The 1260-1390 radiocarbon date of the Turin Shroud was the result of a computer hacking #3</a>."<br /><br />Stephen E. Jones<br />----------------------------------<br />MY POLICIES Comments are moderated. Those I consider off-topic, offensive or sub-standard will not appear. Except that comments under my latest post can be on any Shroud-related topic without being off-topic. I normally allow only one comment per individual under each one of my posts.Stephen E. Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16183223752386599799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8955388713581848615.post-72683848507587544082015-09-24T10:11:41.786+08:002015-09-24T10:11:41.786+08:00Why would Jesus have violated the 2nd commandment ...Why would Jesus have violated the 2nd commandment regarding religious images? Wasn't Jesus wrapped like a mummy like Lazarus? Wasn't Jesus' body washed before putting it in the grave? So how is it that blood is present? He was wrapped in more than on cloths. Is it possible that the shroud is not of God seeing that the enemy can "replicate" God's work and deceive the nations? http://bibleconundrumsandcontroversy.blogspot.com/2011/03/shroud-of-turin-hoax-or-real.htmlDarylhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13054424586826673980noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8955388713581848615.post-14742648461236806042014-09-02T19:49:58.459+08:002014-09-02T19:49:58.459+08:00Anonymous
>The post made on May 1, 2014 at 9:0...Anonymous<br /><br />>The post made on May 1, 2014 at 9:07 PM about Jesus's hair I will explain. Jesus was a Nazarene, those were holy individuals in the Jewish Custom who would forego shaving or cutting their hair till the promise to God is fulfilled. <br /><br />You are confusing "Nazarene" (an inhabitant of Nazareth):<br /><br />"Nazarene, an inhabitant of Nazareth. This appellative is applied to Jesus in many passages in the New Testament. This name, made striking in so many ways, and which, if first given in scorn, was adopted and gloried in by the disciples, we are told in (<a href="http://tinyurl.com/mscfh93" rel="nofollow">Matthew 2:23</a>) possesses a prophetic significance. Its application to Jesus, in consequence of the providential arrangements by which his Parents were led to take up their abode in Nazareth, was the filling out of the predictions in which the promised Messiah is described as a <i>netser</i> i.e. a shoot, sprout , of Jesse, a humble and despised descendant of the decayed royal family. Once, (<a href="http://tinyurl.com/k475w24" rel="nofollow">Acts 24:5</a>) the term Nazarenes is applied to the followers of Jesus by way of contempt. The name still exists in Arabic as the ordinary designation of Christians." ("<a href="http://tinyurl.com/mux83ya" rel="nofollow">Nazarene</a>," in Smith, W., 1901, "Smith's Bible Dictionary").<br /><br />with "Nazirite" or "Nazarite" (an Israelite who took a vow to not cut his hair, amongst other things):<br /><br />"Nazarite, more properly Nazirite (one separated), one of either sex who was bound by a vow of a peculiar kind to be set apart from others for the service of God. The obligation was either for life or for a defined time. ... The Nazarite, during-the term of has consecration, was bound to abstain from wine grapes, with every production of the vine and from every kind of intoxicating drink. He was forbidden to cut the hair of his head, or to approach any dead body, even that of his nearest relation. ..." [see <a href="http://tinyurl.com/q52xftt" rel="nofollow">Num 6:1-2, 13, 18-21; Jdg 13:5, 7; 16:17</a>].("<a href="http://tinyurl.com/l6tsl9o" rel="nofollow">Nazarite</a>," in "Smith's Bible Dictionary").<br /><br />Apart from them being two different words, clearly Jesus was not "bound to abstain from wine" because when He was accused of being "A glutton and a drunkard," Jesus admitted that he had "come eating and drinking" (<a href="http://tinyurl.com/k2feekl" rel="nofollow">Mt 11:19; Lk 7:34</a>) i.e. He did eat food and drink wine but not in excess.<br /><br />Jesus therefore was not a Nazirite and so he was not bound by a Nazirite vow not to cut his hair.<br /><br />>If you recall the scripture of the men (apostles) on the road to Emmaus did not reconize Jesus until he disappeared at the table when he was dividing the bread in an familiar way. More than likely they did not reconize Jesus's without his long hair and beard.<br /><br /><a href="http://tinyurl.com/kgk8vay" rel="nofollow">Luke 24:15-16</a> states why the disciples did not recognise Jesus, "their eyes were KEPT [Gk. <i>ekratounto</i>="continued being held"] from recognizing him":<br /><br />"15 While they were talking and discussing together, Jesus himself drew near and went with them. 16 But their eyes were kept from recognizing him."<br /><br />You no doubt mean well, but you should take great care to get your basic facts right, before you presume to teach others on the Bible. Remember the warning of <a href="http://tinyurl.com/n5qq6jy" rel="nofollow">James 3:1</a>:<br /><br />"Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness."<br /><br />Stephen E. JonesStephen E. Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16183223752386599799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8955388713581848615.post-70209858590227095562014-09-02T05:59:32.458+08:002014-09-02T05:59:32.458+08:00I am posting this after I accidentally hit "D...I am posting this after I accidentally hit "Delete" instead of "Publish" on my smartphone. <br /><br />-----------------------------------<br /><br />Anonymous<br /><br />The post made on May 1, 2014 at 9:07 PM about Jesus's hair I will explain. Jesus was a Nazarene, those were holy individuals in the Jewish Custom who would forego shaving or cutting their hair till the promise to God is fulfilled. If you recall the scripture of the men (apostles) on the road to Emmaus did not reconize Jesus until he disappeared at the table when he was dividing the bread in an familiar way. More than likely they did not reconize Jesus's without his long hair and beard.Stephen E. Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16183223752386599799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8955388713581848615.post-27551931114998322492014-05-14T16:45:22.256+08:002014-05-14T16:45:22.256+08:00Bippy123
>I'm surprised that the Christ my...Bippy123<br /><br />>I'm surprised that the Christ myth stuff has you flustered as it is the weakest argument t against Christ. Even the lunatic fringe Jesus Seminar Group knows the historicity of the historic Christ is just too strong to deny. <br /><br />I meant to add that Gary Habermas makes a telling point in his online talks that in the 19th century the leading German radical critics each proposed their own naturalistic explanation of the resurrection of Christ, but then other radical critics each refuted the others' explanations.<br /><br />So in the end, ALL naturalistic explanation of the resurrection of Christ had been conclusively refuted, leaving only the traditional supernatural explanation of the resurrection of Christ standing!<br /><br />This is paralleled in Shroud anti- authenticity theories. They each refute the other, and none of them convinces the others. <br /><br />But that does not bother unscrupulous professional anti-authenticists like Joe Nickell, who make a living out of anti-Christian and Shroud anti-authenticity scepticism.<br /><br />As I pointed out <a href="http://theshroudofturin.blogspot.com.au/2014/04/how-valid-are-vignon-markings-my.html?showComment=1399000518393#c5152168656223907546" rel="nofollow">in a comment the other day</a>, Nickell has no ethical scruples against arguing for BOTH the painting theory:<br /><br />"In fact, there is no mention of this particular `shroud' for some thirteen centuries; then a respected bishop reportedly uncovered an artist who confessed to having created it. In a letter of 1389 to Pope Clement VII, Bishop Pierre d'Arcis reported on an earlier investigation ... D'Arcis continued, speaking of the earlier bishop who conducted the investigation: Eventually, after diligent inquiry and examination, he discovered the fraud and how the said cloth had been cunningly painted, the truth being attested by the artist who had painted it, to wit, that it was a work of human skill and not miraculously wrought or bestowed" (Nickell, J., 1993, "Looking for a Miracle," pp.25-26. Emphasis original). <br /><br />AND the bas relief/statue theory:<br /><br />"As an alternative to the painting hypothesis, some two years before McCrone published his findings, I reported the results of my own successful experiments in creating shroudlike `negative' images. The technique involved wet-molding cloth to a bas-relief (used instead of a fully [28] three-dimensional statue to minimize distortion), allowing it to dry, then rubbing on powdered pigment using a dauber-much as one would make a rubbing from a gravestone. This technique automatically yields 'negative' images (or rather, just like the shroud, quasi-negative images, since the hair and beard are the opposite of what would be expected). It also produces numerous other shroudlike features, including minimal depth of penetration into the threads, encoded `3-D' information, and other similarities, some of which specifically pointed to some form of imprinting technique. "<br />(Nickell, 1993, pp.27-28).<br /><br />when they are MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE. <br /><br />The evidence FOR one is evidence AGAINST the other!<br /><br />And what is equally amazing is that Nickell's `rationalist' admirers don't even notice the contradiction.<br /><br />Or if they do they don't care. For such `rationalists' any argument will do, even if it is irrational, as long as it is anti-authenticity!<br /><br />Stephen E. JonesStephen E. Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16183223752386599799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8955388713581848615.post-60367937963673653652014-05-14T15:31:53.263+08:002014-05-14T15:31:53.263+08:00Bippy123
>OrthodoxApologia92 As Stephen said i...Bippy123<br /><br />>OrthodoxApologia92 As Stephen said it could be an attack or it could be both an attack and anxiety some of the greatest theologians have gone through it. <br /><br />Wise advice, Bob. But Dillon may not read your comment, as he may have moved on.<br /><br />Stephen E. JonesStephen E. Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16183223752386599799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8955388713581848615.post-45680382331182973002014-05-14T14:30:38.817+08:002014-05-14T14:30:38.817+08:00OrthodoxApologia92 As Stephen said it could be an ...OrthodoxApologia92 As Stephen said it could be an attack or it could be both an attack and anxiety some of the greatest theologians have gone through it. I am Catholic myself but some of the greatest Protestant theologians suffered from this .<br /><br />Charles Spurgeon was one such man and so was John Bunyan. I personally think its both and attack from the father is lies and scrupulosity .<br /><br />https://suite.io/kenneth-burchfiel/21pq2p0<br /><br />First of all don't be so hard on yourself as it will only contribute to the anxiety . Satan also works through a persons weakness.<br /><br />Here is another great article on dealing with doubt by gary habermas who is known as the resurrection man. He was 2 weeks away from explaining to his Christian Parents that he was aboit to leave Christianity and convert to Buddhism , but he decided to give it another shot and he ended up doing his phd dissertation on the resurrection which brought him back to Christianity , but not before he endured 10 years of doubt. So don't feel so bad , as Stephen said many have been through it so your not alone , and many have spilled through it.<br /><br />http://www.garyhabermas.com/books/dealing_with_doubt/dealing_with_doubt.htm<br /><br /><br />I'm surprised that the Christ myth stuff has you flustered as it is the weakest argument t against Christ. Even the lunatic fringe Jesus Seminar Group knows the historicity of the historic Christ is just too strong to deny. <br /><br />Also the historic evidence is totally against the apostles making it all up as you said.<br />First of all if they wanted to make it all up they never would have written that the women found the tomb first , as this story would have made them the laughing stock of their time. <br /><br />This is because the testimony of a woman in 1st century Jerusalem was worth less then dirt. If the apostles were lying they definitely would never have said the women found the tomb empty first. They also would have never gone to their death for what they knew was a lie. 11 of the 12 disciples died a horrible Marty's death for their faith in Christ Crucified.<br /><br />If you need to talk come to the Godandscienceforum and we can chat on the forum or in private message ok? http://discussions.godandscience.org<br />We also have a great shroud of turin thread there and most of the info there comes from stephen's awesome research on this blog. There are many nice and knowledgable Christians like Stephen there that could also help totally debunk the ridiculous Christ myth.<br /><br />I take it that you might be from India ? One if my best friends Ashoke converted to Christianity 9 years before he unexpectedly passed away which gave me the consolation that he is with our lord and savior in heaven.<br /><br />What u should also do is contact a Christian pastor that you trust in your area and have him set u up with a Christian therapist that understands scrupulosity. I have it and that the route I went. As Christ said do not be afraid. You will get through this my friend. Your not the first person to go through this and recovers me you won't be the last.<br /><br />Christ loves you my friend and he isn't letting go of you ok ;)<br /><br />God bless you my friend<br />Bippy123<br /><br />Bippy123noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8955388713581848615.post-58162249190351394802014-05-03T07:11:01.131+08:002014-05-03T07:11:01.131+08:00Dillon
>Hi Stephen, thanks. I am starting to ...Dillon<br /> <br />>Hi Stephen, thanks. I am starting to wonder if two opposing religions existing in one house could be the problem: Hinduism and Christianity. My mother also has no problem with participating in Muslim rituals as well. I always thought that those deities were non-existent but I think that my theory proved to be untrue. <br /><br />The Bible says that behind pagan religions are very real DEMONS:<br /><br />1Cor 10:20-21. "20 No, I imply that <i>what pagans sacrifice they offer to demons</i> and not to God. I do not want you to be participants with demons. 21 You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons. You cannot partake of the table of the Lord and the table of demons."<br /><br />So again my advice to you is to move out. There may be a very real demonic presence in that house which is oppressing you.<br /><br />[...]<br /><br />That <i>definitely</i> was your and my last comment under this post. Any further comments under it by you won't appear. And any further comments under any of my posts, unless they are about the Shroud, won't appear either.<br /><br />I must be cruel to be kind. You need real life, face-to-face Bible-believing Christian fellowship and pastoral counselling. <br /><br />Stephen E. JonesStephen E. Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16183223752386599799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8955388713581848615.post-22177651259066665662014-05-02T22:39:56.235+08:002014-05-02T22:39:56.235+08:00Hi Stephen, thanks. I am starting to wonder if two...Hi Stephen, thanks. I am starting to wonder if two opposing religions existing in one house could be the problem: Hinduism and Christianity. My mother also has no problem with participating in Muslim rituals as well. I always thought that those deities were non-existent but I think that my theory proved to be untrue. I'll take your advice and keep searching. Do you know Hebrew grammar? I'll probably pass by again.Dillonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8955388713581848615.post-82616398380948538142014-05-02T20:15:09.621+08:002014-05-02T20:15:09.621+08:00[continued]
>Could it be that because two oppo...[continued]<br /><br />>Could it be that because two opposing religions existing in I go by O.A.92 for sake of the orthodox views I hold like Jesus is God, The Trinity, virgin birth, but I guess I shouldn't have done that. <br /><br />Just call yourself by your real name as I do, not even "Anonymous". Jesus said in <a href="http://tinyurl.com/n9dzmlo" rel="nofollow">Mt 10:32-33</a>: <br /><br />32 So everyone who acknowledges me before men, I also will acknowledge before my Father who is in heaven, 33 but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven." <br /><br />You can't acknowledge Jesus hiding behind the pseudonym "Anonymous."<br /><br />>I'm young, actually but I guess I have a lot to learn still. I haven't been baptised yet and I fellowship with a few non-denominational people who believe in the Trinity, the virgin birth, baptism of belief, but I didn't believe in other people praying for me because I viewed such as a Catholic idea. So I always prayed for myself because my Bible believing friends always told me there's only One mediator between God and man, the Man, Jesus Christ. So I didn't bother to do such because Catholics did such. I was never a true "open" person.<br /><br />Continue praying to Jesus to show you the way He wants you to follow Him. But start answering your own prayer by attending different Bible-believing churches until you find the one that you feel right about attending, starting from this Sunday. <br /><br />>Could it be that I'm plagued with the same type of mindset that the Genesis 1-3 guy had? Sudden disturbing un-real thoughts. Seems like he had anxiety too. <br /><br />See above.<br /><br />>I now realise that although the Bible mentions Jugdment as an individual thing, salvation seems to be "group work" i.e. strengthening each other in Christ. <br /><br /><i>Salvation</i> is individual but <i>sanctification</i> is group work.<br /><br />>Is the SDA church a good church? <br /><br />They have some strange doctrines, not only that you must worship on Saturday (when it is clear that the early Christians worshipped on Sunday-<a href="http://tinyurl.com/pp3upmw" rel="nofollow">Acts 2:1; 20:7; 1Cor 16:2</a>), and their compulsory law-keeping, but also they believe Jesus returned in 1914, which is where the Jehovah's Witnesses got the idea, since the JW founder Charles Taze Russell was an Adventist, from which the SDAs are an offshoot. I would recommend you DON'T start attending an SDA church. <br /><br />>For the sake of "starting over" I won't refer to myself as an apologist and I'll cut down on debating people. <br /><br />Great!<br /><br />>Please, can I continue this conversation via e-mail if it doesn't bother you? I'm really concerned. Thank you for your time.<br /><br />Sorry, but I don't think that is a good idea. There is only so much I can do to help you over the Internet. You need to talk with a real-life Pastor or Christian counselor. Also, my calling is the Shroud and it would take up too much of my time helping you.<br /><br />So this was your last comment under this post. But feel free to comment on other Shroud-related matters under my other posts. <br /><br />Stephen E. JonesStephen E. Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16183223752386599799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8955388713581848615.post-86443735773120914192014-05-02T20:00:11.022+08:002014-05-02T20:00:11.022+08:00[continued]
Mt 12:31-32. "Therefore I say to...[continued]<br /><br /><a href="http://tinyurl.com/lt7q6tc" rel="nofollow">Mt 12:31-32</a>. "Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.<br /><br />"William Cowper ... 1731 – ... 1800 ... was an English poet and hymnodist. .. Although after being institutionalised for insanity in the period 1763–65, Cowper found refuge in a fervent evangelical Christianity, the inspiration behind his much-loved hymns, he often experienced doubt and after a dream in 1773 believed that he was doomed to eternal damnation. Later, he would recover and write more religious hymns." ("<a href="http://tinyurl.com/oyhlu" rel="nofollow">William Cowper</a>," Wikipedia, 21 April 2014).<br /><br />But his Christian Pastor reassured him, that the fact that he was worried about having committed the unpardonable sin is a sure sign that he hadn't!<br /><br />>Please, I don't want to be fooling myself and be left behind when Jesus comes. <br /><br />Great. But that can only be settled between you and the Lord. <br /><br />>Most of the time I read the Bible by myself and prayed and I felt confident witnessing to other people on the bus, other friends, etc. I even recited a monologue of the Nativity to people on the bus when Christmas time rolled around. <br /><br />Christian activity does not make one a Christian. A notable example was Billy Graham's former associate, <a href="http://tinyurl.com/6oj3bs" rel="nofollow">Charles Templeman</a>, who conducted evangelistic crusades with Billy Graham and thousands were saved through his ministry, but through reading the spiritual poison of liberal theology he lost his faith and became an atheist. <br /><br />>But now I feel strange and condemned when I come to the quotes of Jesus in the Gospels like before Abraham was I AM. Thoughts like the disciples made that up entered my head. <br /><br />They would have to be the greatest theological geniuses ever. It is harder to believe that an bunch of Galilean fishermen invented Jesus, than that the Jesus of the Gospels was (and is) authentic. That is one of the advantages of the Shroud. It refutes the "reasoning in a circle" charge levied against Christians. <br /><br />>A Jehovah's Witness I met said that the occasion of the condemned adulteress is an addition to Scripture. <br /><br />As a truly great book, "The Progressive Publication of Matthew" by B. Ward Powers, 2010, convincingly shows, the Synoptic Gospels (Matthew, Mark and Luke) were the product of the Apostle Matthew progressively issuing, first in Aramaic/Hebrew, then later in Greek, short stories of what Jesus said and did. The rapid expansion of the early church created a huge demand for authentic words of Jesus but the Christians were too poor and persecuted to sustain a large manuscript copying industry. Matthew's Gospel was then compiled by Matthew from those stories. Mark and Luke's Gospels were based on the earlier stories issued by Matthew supplemented by their own material.<br /><br />Powers uses the example of the "Woman caught in the act of adultery" (<a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Jn%207:53%E2%80%938:11&version=ESV" rel="nofollow">Jn 7:53–8:11</a>) as an example of one of those authentic short stories issued by Matthew, but which was not included in Matthew's final compilation because it had later become misunderstood.<br /><br />>I was introduced to Jesus as the Saviour of the world in 2009 after I graduated from high school. Before that I used to view Him as some spiritual man that went to India to learn wisdom. I grew up in a Hindu family but I was not very religious. My father is still a practising Hindu and I still live with my parents. <br /><br />This might be part of your problem. There might be a real demonic presence in that house, so you need to urgently consider moving out.<br /><br />[continued]Stephen E. Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16183223752386599799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8955388713581848615.post-64825399691401410762014-05-02T19:58:14.729+08:002014-05-02T19:58:14.729+08:00Anonymous
>I've been looking for an actual...Anonymous<br /><br />>I've been looking for an actual Bible based church with an anointed pastor for a long while.<br /><br />Great. That you are not attending a Bible-based church is likely to be a large part of your problem. <br /><br />>I'm not looking to debate you. I'm seeking Christian help. <br /><br />OK. I had to say it because I have been hoaxed before by someone who pretended he wanted help but he turned out to be an atheism who was on a `mission' from Satan to deliberately waste my time so I couldn't post as much.<br /><br />>Is this truly an attack or is this just anxiety? I've told by another friend that "this is anxiety, just keep serving Jesus regardless" <br /><br />It could be either or both.<br /><br />>I've been having disturbing thoughts in March too: "There's no God" but I've gotten over that thought but the "un-real" thoughts have now shifted to Jesus being "un-real" and that the the disciples were "cooking up stories." <br /><br />In my early Christian life I used to hear anti-Christian thoughts in my head, which I later realised were from Satan. I heard a Christian Pastor say that it was common for new Christians until they learned to recognise the "still, small, voice" of God the Holy Spirit:<br /><br /><a href="http://tinyurl.com/l6taqy5" rel="nofollow">1Ki 19:11-15</a> (NKJV) God's Revelation to Elijah 11 Then He said, "Go out, and stand on the mountain before the Lord." And behold, the Lord passed by, and a great and strong wind tore into the mountains and broke the rocks in pieces before the Lord, but the Lord was not in the wind; and after the wind an earthquake, but the Lord was not in the earthquake; 12 and after the earthquake a fire, but the Lord was not in the fire; and after the fire A STILL SMALL VOICE. 13 So it was, when Elijah heard it, that he wrapped his face in his mantle and went out and stood in the entrance of the cave. Suddenly a voice came to him, and said, "What are you doing here, Elijah?" 14 And he said, "I have been very zealous for the Lord God of hosts; because the children of Israel have forsaken Your covenant, torn down Your altars, and killed Your prophets with the sword. I alone am left; and they seek to take my life." 15 Then THE LORD SAID TO HIM: "Go, return on your way to the Wilderness of Damascus; and when you arrive, anoint Hazael as king over Syria.<br /><br />Another thing I heard a Pastor say was that if it is an accusing voice it is not the Holy Spirit, but Satan, who is "the accuser" of Christians:<br /><br /><a href="http://tinyurl.com/nqu7kyn" rel="nofollow">Rev 12:10</a>. And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, "Now the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ have come, for of our brothers has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God.<br /><br />Those two truths helped me to tune out the voice of Satan and tune in to the voice of the Holy Spirit.<br /><br />>I feel horrible now. Maybe you're right, maybe I was not a true Christian for the past 4 years. Maybe this is a wake up call for me. Maybe I took for granted that I was serving Jesus for the past 4 years. I'm starting to doubt my salvation. <br /><br />I had to be cruel to be kind. But if you are doubting your salvation that is the first and necessary step to making your calling and election sure in your own heart and mind:<br /><br /><a href="http://tinyurl.com/ly57a4z" rel="nofollow">2Pet 1:10</a> (NKJV). Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; <br /><br />And also some Christians, because of their psychological make-up are more prone to thoughts that they are not saved. The great Christian hymn-writer, William Cowper, was plagued by the thought that he had committed the unpardonable sin, the sin against the Holy Spirit:<br /><br />[continued]Stephen E. Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16183223752386599799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8955388713581848615.post-86560429001668125932014-05-02T11:30:16.873+08:002014-05-02T11:30:16.873+08:00Hi Stephen. I've been looking for an actual Bi...Hi Stephen. I've been looking for an actual Bible based church with an anointed pastor for a long while. I'm not looking to debate you. I'm seeking Christian help. Is this truly an attack or is this just anxiety? I've told by another friend that "this is anxiety, just keep serving Jesus regardless" I've been having disturbing thoughts in March too: "There's no God" but I've gotten over that thought but the "un-real" thoughts have now shifted to Jesus being "un-real" and that the the disciples were "cooking up stories." I feel horrible now. Maybe you're right, maybe I was not a true Christian for the past 4 years. Maybe this is a wake up call for me. Maybe I took for granted that I was serving Jesus for the past 4 years. I'm starting to doubt my salvation. Please, I don't want to be fooling myself and be left behind when Jesus comes. Most of the time I read the Bible by myself and prayed and I felt confident witnessing to other people on the bus, other friends, etc. I even recited a monologue of the Nativity to people on the bus when Christmas time rolled around. But now I feel strange and condemned when I come to the quotes of Jesus in the Gospels like before Abraham was I AM. Thoughts like the disciples made that up entered my head. A Jehovah's Witness I met said that the occasion of the condemned adulteress is an addition to Scripture. I was introduced to Jesus as the Saviour of the world in 2009 after I graduated from high school. Before that I used to view Him as some spiritual man that went to India to learn wisdom. I grew up in a Hindu family but I was not very religious. My father is still a practising Hindu and I still live with my parents. Could it be that because two opposing religions existing in I go by O.A.92 for sake of the orthodox views I hold like Jesus is God, The Trinity, virgin birth, but I guess I shouldn't have done that. I'm young, actually but I guess I have a lot to learn still. I haven't been baptised yet and I fellowship with a few non-denominational people who believe in the Trinity, the virgin birth, baptism of belief, but I didn't believe in other people praying for me because I viewed such as a Catholic idea. So I always prayed for myself because my Bible believing friends always told me there's only One mediator between God and man, the Man, Jesus Christ. So I didn't bother to do such because Catholics did such. I was never a true "open" person. <br /><br />Could it be that I'm plagued with the same type of mindset that the Genesis 1-3 guy had? Sudden disturbing un-real thoughts. Seems like he had anxiety too. I now realise that although the Bible mentions Jugdment as an individual thing, salvation seems to be "group work" i.e. strengthening each other in Christ. Is the SDA church a good church? For the sake of "starting over" I won't refer to myself as an apologist and I'll cut down on debating people. Please, can I continue this conversation via e-mail if it doesn't bother you? I'm really concerned. Thank you for your time.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8955388713581848615.post-21739692781669852072014-05-01T21:07:39.509+08:002014-05-01T21:07:39.509+08:00[continued]
>Also the man in the Shroud has lo...[continued]<br /><br />>Also the man in the Shroud has long hair and the Apostle Paul said that long hair is a shame to man. How would you respond to such a claim? <br /><br />The same way that Stevenson and Habermas do, by pointing out that "long" is NOT AN OBJECTIVE MEASUREMENT but is CULTURALLY CONDITIONED, that as a Jew Paul himself would probably have had shoulder-length hair, and what Paul probably meant by "long hair" is effeminate hair styles:<br /><br />"In <a href="http://tinyurl.com/mc63jgk" rel="nofollow">1 Corinthians 11:14</a>, the Apostle Paul declares that long hair is a disgrace to men, yet the man of the Shroud apparently has shoulder-length hair. ... though the question of long hair seems overly naive, it is frequently asked. Our concept of what Paul meant by `long hair' is usually affected by our own views of what constitutes long hair. While Paul was speaking of effeminate men who wore their hair in styles peculiar to women, Paul himself would probably have worn shoulder-length hair in keeping with the hairstyle of the other orthodox Jews of his day. As a matter of fact, the traditional style for an orthodox Jewish man of two thousand years ago is much the same for him today: a ponytail of hair and sidelocks-precisely what we see on the Shroud." (Stevenson, K.E. & Habermas, G.R., 1990, "The Shroud and the Controversy," pp.150-151)<br /><br />>Thanks. I always had looked to the Shroud as Jesus Image but now I don't feel the same. I'm willing to believe once more that the Shroud is the burial cloth of a Jesus. Can you please help me put my mind at ease? Thank you.<br /><br />You seem out of your depth as a self-styled Christian apologist. I have been a Christian for nearly 50 years, and in that time I have accumulated over a thousand Christian (mostly evangelical Bible-believing) books, I can read Greek and Hebrew aided by a Greek and Hebrew interlinear translations and Greek and Hebrew lexicons of which I have about 10; as well as over 80 books on the Shroud.<br /><br />Jesus had been preparing me for nearly 30 years before He called me to be an apologist for Him. You can CALL YOURSELF "OrthodoxApologia92" but that doesn't mean you ARE. All the TRUE apologists call themselves by their REAL NAME. Prepare yourself by doing the hard yards and MAYBE Jesus will call you as one of His apologists. <br /><br />So my advice is to: 1) get to know Jesus PERSONALLY, then you won't entertain the thought that He is a "myth"; 2) realise that Satan is real and if you fill your mind with anti-Christian thoughts you will become anti-Christian in your thinking, without realising it. <a href="http://tinyurl.com/luwdty4" rel="nofollow">Eph 4:27</a> (NIV) warns, "do not give the devil <i>a foothold</i>"; and 3) cease debating on the Internet if the questions that anti-Christian sceptics (who are Satan's agents without them realising it) raise in your mind are making "shipwreck of [your] faith" (<a href="http://tinyurl.com/mv68j2a" rel="nofollow">1Tim 1:19</a>), or are making you realise that you don't yet have a GENUINE Christian faith.<br /><br />My long multi-part comment in response to yours is not an invitation to debate. As per my stated policies: "...I concluded that Internet debates were largely a waste of time ... So I normally allow only one comment per individual under each one of my posts."<br /><br />However, I will allow you one more comment, if you wish, to ask any follow-up questions of my reply above.<br /><br />Stephen E. JonesStephen E. Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16183223752386599799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8955388713581848615.post-44434705681558533662014-05-01T20:51:15.683+08:002014-05-01T20:51:15.683+08:00[continued]
>I've heard about the "Ch...[continued]<br /><br />>I've heard about the "Christ Myth Theory" before but I took such a theory for granted and always said in my mind "Of course Jesus is real, the Bible says so" and now the thought of those atheists being right is plaguing me. No I haven't been reading their material but the thought just penetrated my heart and mind. <br /><br />See above. It sounds like you don't have a personal relationship with Jesus, because if you did you could not think that Christ is a myth. In which case you might be among the "many" who THINK they are Christians but will find out, too late, when Jesus returns, that they WERE NOT:<br /><br /><a href="http://tinyurl.com/o642wjb" rel="nofollow">Mt 7:22-23</a>. "22 On that day many will say to me, `Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' 23 And then will I declare to them, `I NEVER KNEW YOU; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'"<br /><br />>Moreover the Bible says that strips of linen was used and not a long Shroud. <br /><br />It says that in some older ENGLISH TRANSLATIONS, but not in the original Greek. Modern translations like the English Standard Version, correctly translate the Gk. <i>sindon</i> as "shroud":<br /><br /><a href="http://tinyurl.com/mcyxqv6" rel="nofollow">Mt 27:59</a>. And Joseph took the body and wrapped it in a clean linen SHROUD<br /><br /><a href="http://tinyurl.com/l2h8l9k" rel="nofollow">Mk 15:46</a>. And Joseph bought a linen SHROUD, and taking him down, wrapped him in the linen shroud and laid him in a tomb that had been cut out of the rock. And he rolled a stone against the entrance of the tomb.<br /><br /><a href="http://tinyurl.com/kp52mrt" rel="nofollow">Lk 23:53</a>. Then he took it down and wrapped it in a linen SHROUD and laid him in a tomb cut in stone, where no one had ever yet been laid. <br /><br />And in <a href="http://tinyurl.com/kn82olw" rel="nofollow">Jn 20:7-9</a>, where the Gk. word is not <i>sindon</i> but <i>othonia</i>, the ESV correctly translates that as "linen cloths" (the Shroud and the other linen burial strips): <br /><br />7 and the face cloth, which had been on Jesus' head, not lying with the LINEN CLOTHS but folded up in a place by itself. 8 Then the other disciple, who had reached the tomb first, also went in, and he saw and believed; 9 for as yet they did not understand the Scripture, that he must rise from the dead.<br /><br />That <i>othonia</i> "linen cloths" includes the Shroud is evident by comparing <a href="http://tinyurl.com/jwyls9k" rel="nofollow">Lk 24:12</a>:<br /><br />"But Peter rose and ran to the tomb; stooping and looking in, he saw the linen cloths [<i>othonia</i>] by themselves; and he went home marveling at what had happened" with Lk 23:53 above which specifically mentions the "linen shroud" [<i>sindon</i>] included in those linen cloths [<i>othonia</i>].<br /><br />[continued]Stephen E. Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16183223752386599799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8955388713581848615.post-37565496799871908562014-05-01T20:25:26.143+08:002014-05-01T20:25:26.143+08:00>Sceptics say that some medieval european used ...>Sceptics say that some medieval european used the pinhole camera concept to create the Image and that flax was common in Europe. <br /><br />That the pinhole CAMERA OBSCURA was used in medieval times to make DRAWINGS, is one thing. But the CAMERA, i.e. the forming of an image on a LIGHT-SENSITIVE MEDIUM is another thing entirely and was not invented until the 19th century. <br /><br />>My mind is becoming more and more sceptical and I now have a great inrush of thoughts that I'm unable to get rid of. I'm Christian but as of late I'm getting strange disturbing thoughts about my Lord Jesus. I'm sitting, doing own stuff, all of a sudden a thought penetrated my mind: "Jesus is imaginary" The more I try to get rid of the thought is the more it penetrates my heart and mind. <br /><br />Sounds like an attack of Satan. Are you regularly attending a Bible-believing church? Are you having a regular `quiet time' of Bible reading and prayer? <br /><br />When I was involved in the creation/evolution debate a Christian sought my help because he was haunted by the thought that Genesis 1-3 was false, and therefore Christ was wrong about it being true:<br /><br /><a href="http://tinyurl.com/m8y2t7t" rel="nofollow">Mt 19:4-6</a>. 4 He [Jesus] answered, `Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female[<a href="http://tinyurl.com/mdzdywv" rel="nofollow">Gn 1:27</a>], and said, `Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh' [<a href="http://tinyurl.com/keozywl" rel="nofollow">Gn 2:24</a>]? 6 So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.'"<br /><br />and therefore Christ was not God and Christianity was false.<br /><br />I first suggested he seek help from his Pastor, but he may not have had one. I tried to answer his question, but nothing I wrote worked. <br /><br />So I recommend to him to set aside the Genesis 1-3 question and do what I did from the late 1980s when I had become increasingly secular in my thinking and was going through a spiritual crisis. I started going for nightly walks listening to a Christian radio program on my Walkman radio. One night the speaker, <a href="http://tinyurl.com/3evgnf5" rel="nofollow">Chuck Swindoll</a> recommended that Christians should have a mentor. But if they don't have a mentor, he said, "Jesus can be your mentor!" I resolved that night that in my morning `quiet time', I would read only the words of Jesus in the Gospels, and apply each one of them personally to me, asking for His help and forgiveness where I fell short (which was most times). Even though I used a harmony of the gospels, and had my morning `quiet time' most days, it still took me about EIGHT YEARS to complete it. <br /><br />But it CHANGED MY LIFE. Even though I had been a committed Christian for about 20 years when I started the project, I only dimly understood what it meant to have a PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP with Jesus. But increasingly through my mostly daily reading and prayer based on reading only the words of Jesus and applying them to myself, Jesus spoke personally to my heart and I discovered what it meant to have a PERSONAL relationship with HIM. <br /><br />So I recommended that to that Christian in the creation/evolution debate that he cease debating creation/evolution on the Internet until he do what I did until he KNEW that he had a personal relationship with Jesus. <br /><br />Then when he got back to the Genesis 1-3 question, he would see it in perspective.<br /><br />And I RECOMMEND THAT TO YOU also, after first seeing your Pastor. But as far as I know the person worried about Genesis did not take my advice. So evidently, although he CLAIMED to be desperate for my help, he was not prepared to pay the price of inconveniencing himself so that he could gain "the SURPASSING WORTH of knowing Christ Jesus" (<a href="http://tinyurl.com/p352b3h" rel="nofollow">Php 3:8</a>) Are YOU?<br /><br />[continued]Stephen E. Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16183223752386599799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8955388713581848615.post-79582309261079906962014-05-01T19:54:56.189+08:002014-05-01T19:54:56.189+08:00Fanti, et al., found that the closest match to the...Fanti, et al., found that the closest match to the Shroud's image on linen was obtained by subjecting linen to high energy, high frequency ultraviolet light from an excimer laser:<br /><br />"<a href="http://tinyurl.com/d8rwvg9" rel="nofollow">Italian study claims Turin Shroud is Christ's authentic burial robe</a>," <i>The Telegraph</i> Nick Squires, Rome, 19 Dec 2011 ... Italian scientists have conducted a series of advanced experiments which, they claim, show that the marks on the shroud – purportedly left by the imprint of Christ's body – could not possibly have been faked with technology that was available in the medieval period. ... The new study is the latest intriguing piece of a puzzle which has baffled scientists for centuries ... experts from Italy's National Agency for New Technologies, Energy and Sustainable Development [ENEA]. ... set out to `identify the physical and chemical processes capable of generating a colour similar to that of the image on the Shroud.' They concluded that THE EXACT SHADE, TEXTURE AND DEPTH OF THE IMPRINTS ON THE CLOTH COULD ONLY BE PRODUCED WITH THE AID OF ULTRAVIOLET LASERS – technology that was clearly not available in medieval times. The scientists used extremely brief pulses of ultraviolet light to replicate the kind of marks found on the burial cloth. They concluded that the iconic image of the bearded man must therefore have been created by `some form of electromagnetic energy (such as a flash of light at short wavelength).' Although they stopped short of offering a non-scientific explanation for the phenomenon, their findings will be embraced by those who believe that the marks on the shroud were miraculously created at the moment of Christ's Resurrection. " <br /><br />It is a fallacy to think that the authenticity of the Shroud stands or falls on ONE feature alone. Shroud sceptics (i.e. true believers in the Shroud's NON-authenticity) typically take pot-shots at individual features of the Shroud, and if they THINK that they have won on ONE individual point, they can declare victory for the forgery theory. <br /><br />But what the Shroud sceptics need to do is propose a COMPREHENSIVE AND INTERNALLY CONSISTENT forgery theory, which: <br /><br />1) POSITIVELY explains plausibly how the image on the Shroud was formed in a way that is inconsistent with the Shroud's authenticity, including not only HOW the image was formed, but WHEN it was formed, and WHO formed it; <br /><br />and <br /><br />2) NEGATIVELY plausibly explains away ALL the evidence for the Shroud's authenticity. <br /><br />That there is NO such comprehensive and internally consistent forgery theory, is itself evidence that the Shroud is NOT a forgery. In my "<a href="http://tinyurl.com/ckkydyx" rel="nofollow">The Shroud of Turin</a>" series, I am collecting problems of the forgery theory which I will eventually post as "Problems of the forgery theory." Then it will be seen that the problems of the Shroud authenticity theory are NOTHING compared to the problems of the forgery theory.<br /><br />[continued]Stephen E. Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16183223752386599799noreply@blogger.com